We were contacted by a journalist at Le Parisien newspaper with this prompt:
> I am preparing an article on the use of your secure personal data phone solution by drug traffickers and other criminals. Have you ever been contacted by the police?
⇧
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •> Are you aware that some of your clients might be criminals? And how does the company manage this issue?
Absolutely no further details were provided about what was being claimed, who was making it or the basis for those being made about it. We could only provide a very generic response to this.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •ClaudioM hat dies geteilt.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •There's a reason they're going after a legitimate privacy and security project developed outside of their jurisdiction rather than 2 companies based in France within their reach profiting from selling 'privacy' products.
discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134…
Here's that article:
archive.is/AhMsj
Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumDavid Penfold
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Niavy
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Okay, you're a stronger OS than the other Android-based ones, particularly regarding privacy and degoogling, but you often despise other projects despite their efforts and the alternative these offer.
I acknowledge your strong efforts but I don't like at all your "We are the one white angel, other projects don't reach our purity".
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Niavy • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion Forumkit
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •It's very clear that graphene are very committed to a particular security model. It's less clear whether that security model meets my particular use-case, nor how to determine whether it might become so in the future, without all the shouting.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf kit • • •@hypostase @niavy We're defending ourselves from major ongoing attacks on our project/team. We're not shouting.
GrapheneOS is a privacy project. It provides substantial privacy improvements including Contact Scopes, Storage Scopes, Sensors toggle, per-connection Wi-Fi anonymity including but not limited to MAC randomization, fixes for 5 different Android VPN leaks and far more. Privacy depends on security so we also heavily focus on that with exploit protections, which are proven to work well.
kit
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@niavy When you use words like ”scam” it starts to look less like defence. Defence would look like ”x said thing a and we disagree because … ”
For some of us our model may be different. Personally, for me, my model specifically excludes the use of google accounts, and it’s not clear to me that that would be possible with graphene, even leaving aside the hardware issue.
Because I have a particular set of priorities, I find it difficult to see a justification for the word ”scam” in some instances.
On the other hand, I have not seen any project that looks like it might meet my needs, and won’t until, and unless, there is strong support for non-US, preferably under multiple jurisdictions, third-party app suppliers for critical apps. That, of course, is beyond the scope of a single project, no matter how necessary it may be.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf kit • • •@hypostase @niavy Unlike both of those operating systems, GrapheneOS doesn't connect to any Google servers by default and does not contain privileged Google service integration into the OS. We don't market it by calling it "degoogled" since the point if strong privacy and security, not avoiding one particular set of services.
Read discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134… and the information from the Divested Computing project we have linked there. Calling that a scam is completely and thoroughly justified.
Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumGrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •kit
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf kit • • •Libre>Gratis
Als Antwort auf kit • • •kit
Als Antwort auf Libre>Gratis • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf kit • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumGrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@hypostase @libreovergratis @niavy I indeed believe that GrapheneOS offers the best security in my opinion, and CalyxOS, iodé and /e/ fall behind. However, I don't know they are doing attacks on you, and I don't know how they will even fall behind LineageOS. I can't find posts, news and other resources about attacks towards GrapheneOS according to DDG and ChatGPT. Can you offer links supporting your statements?
By the way, I've never purchased Murena's and iodé's products.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@hypostase @libreovergratis @niavy In fact, I have already read your article. However what you've talk about is the security-hardening of GrapheneOS, which /e/ and iodé does not have. That is true and I have already know about it.
However, /e/ offers features to protect the users against trackers in addition to. iodéOS offers bootloader relocking. I don't know why they fall behind LineageOS.
We are talking about /e/ and iodé vs LineageOS comparison, not vs GrapheneOS comparison.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •@rebel1725 @hypostase @libreovergratis @niavy
> In fact, I have already read your article.
That doesn't appear to be the case based on your responses, so you should probably read it and the linked content again.
> However what you've talk about is the security-hardening of GrapheneOS
No, the article focuses on the extraordinarily level of privacy and insecurity primarily caused by lack of basic privacy and security patches along with losing many standard privacy and security protections.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@rebel1725 @hypostase @libreovergratis @niavy
> However, /e/ offers features to protect the users against trackers in addition to.
No, they provide a very poor implementation of DNS-based filtering and heavily misrepresents what it does. It accomplishes close to nothing since nearly none of the most privacy invasive behavior by apps is not done with separate third party domains and the stuff that is bypasses DNS-based filtering via DNS-over-HTTPS since DNS filtering is so widely deployed.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@rebel1725 @hypostase @libreovergratis @niavy
> iodéOS offers bootloader relocking. I don't know why they fall behind LineageOS.
The only security benefit of locking is to enable verified boot. They don't keep the verified boot security model intact and the only purpose it serves for them is that wiping data via recovery can't be as easily bypassed, except they're not providing important security patches and are mainly using low security devices where this doesn't work properly anyway.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@rebel1725 @hypostase @libreovergratis @niavy Keeping up with the privacy and security updates is far more important than a partial implementation of verified boot not even actually working on all the devices they support...
> We are talking about /e/ and iodé vs LineageOS comparison, not vs GrapheneOS comparison.
LineageOS keeps up with updates better, doesn't add as many misguided changes, doesn't add as much attack surface and is far more trustworthy of a project than either of those.
Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@hypostase @libreovergratis @niavy Thank you for your detailed explanation. I have originally planned a switch from LineageOS to /e/, now I will no longer consider this plan.
Furthermore, I have also planned a switch to iodé when the GrapheneOS support is end on my Google Pixel 6. I will consider flashing a self-built LineageOS user mode build with bootloader relocking support instead.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@hypostase @libreovergratis @niavy I have a Google Pixel 6 used for security and privacy intensive works, and it runs GrapheneOS. But what OS should I choose for my OnePlus 11, my Xiaomi Mi 10S, and my OnePlus 5T?
They currently run LineageOS, and I am planning to switch to an OS which offers a relatively better level of security and privacy. Currently I plan to switch to /e/. So learning about why it falls behind LineageOS js important for me to make a proper decision.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Libre>Gratis
Als Antwort auf kit • • •@hypostase @niavy
The Internet: 'We need vocal privacy advocates and commited devs. '
*advocates for privacy*
The internet: 'Okay okay shut up already, gosh.'
kit
Als Antwort auf Libre>Gratis • • •@libreovergratis @niavy And a critical part of that is to have multiple models. If each is just trying to be the next monoculture, then the problem will not be solved.
For me, the critical factor is not having to use a US based service or product. Under e/os that's painful, Calyx is currently out of play, Graphene is ruled out for hardware, and their rhetoric seems to reach somewhat beyond what it can support.
My claim is that when rhetoric is not clearly backed up, then only those who have the time and will to see past it, might be able to come to a place of trust.
So far I have not really seen a good and neutral analysis of the architectural choices of each of the projects. Just people shouting.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf kit • • •@hypostase @libreovergratis @niavy There's no shouting coming from us. There's substantial misinformation, libel and harassment coming from /e/ and iodéOS which we've responded to by defending ourselves debunking their claims along with posting accurate criticisms of their tech and actions.
You've chosen not to read the detailed and verifiable information at discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134… along with the linked articles from Mike Kuketz, Divesting Computing and Eylenburg's site and other sources.
Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumGrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •kit
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@libreovergratis @niavy Now that is an actual lie.
As I said, I read your material, and at least some of the links including specifically eylenburg.github.io/android_co…
I came to a different conclusion, because my priorities are different.
I absolutely agree that apple is a more secure solution for my needs, but it’s still one that bows to the US government (whether or not one wishes, as I do, to consider it fascist).
So, as I see it, there are no solutions without compromise. It just depends on which compromises one prioritises. Claiming that a different set of priorities is a scam does not necessarily make for good marketing, no matter who says it.
I find it equally disappointing from all.
Comparison of Android-based Operating Systems
eylenburg.github.ioGrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf kit • • •@hypostase @libreovergratis @niavy You've just admitted to the fact that you didn't actually read all of it, and it's clear that you just skimmed over it and didn't actually try to understand or verify what's written there. We didn't lie, contrary to the numerous false narratives you've pushed about GrapheneOS in this thread which are outright lies.
/e/ is a scam because they have an extraordinarily insecure/non-private product sold through endless objectively false marketing claims.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@hypostase @libreovergratis @niavy We've barely gotten started on fighting back against the misinformation about GrapheneOS and libel/harassment towards our team. There's going to be much more active pushback against them combined with legal action over the libel and harassment towards our team which /e/, Murena and their supporters have heavily engaged in.
We have a major OEM partnership and are going to have a lot more resources to better defend ourselves including long overdue legal action.
2babcc
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf 2babcc • • •Leeloo
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@hypostase @libreovergratis @niavy
"There's no shouting coming from us"
So, this entire thread doesn't exist? Because this whole thread makes GrapheneOS sound like a politician with no policies that make them look good, so instead they keep talking about everyone else.
Huge red flag🚩
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Leeloo • • •Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumLeeloo
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •You just keep shouting🚩🚩🚩
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Leeloo • • •Libre>Gratis
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Libre>Gratis • • •Libre>Gratis
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Libre>Gratis
Als Antwort auf Leeloo • • •@leeloo @hypostase @niavy
Good product > good PR.
Leeloo
Als Antwort auf Libre>Gratis • • •In this case the PR is saying "we don't have a good product".
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Leeloo • • •@leeloo @libreovergratis @hypostase @niavy You couldn't be more wrong. You're attacking the actual privacy and security project with substance to support for-profit companies grifting in the space by selling extraordinarily insecure and non-private products with extensive false marketing. There's a reason France is going after GrapheneOS as part of a crackdown on encryption and secure devices but supporting those products...
Why don't you read discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134… and the 3rd party sources?
Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumLeeloo
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •I'm talking about this very thread. If I'm wrong about this thread existing, what am I replying to? How do you keep replying?
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Leeloo • • •Libre>Gratis
Als Antwort auf Leeloo • • •Ah so you've never used the OS then?
Leeloo
Als Antwort auf Libre>Gratis • • •Why would I even consider using a product when the PR is so full of red flags?
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Leeloo • • •Leeloo
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@libreovergratis @hypostase @niavy
Clearly you didn't even read my criticism.
Nothing but red flags.
Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Plinubius 🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Niavy • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Plinubius 🇪🇺 • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@plinubius @niavy You should discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134… because you're greatly underestimating the level of insecurity and non-privacy with /e/. It comes with a bunch of privacy invasive apps/services including sending user data to OpenAI and other invasive services without informing users.
/e/ doesn't have full privacy/security patches on ANY devices but many are much worse than others. They're missing kernel, driver and firmware patches on Pixels since at least June 2025 but most are much worse.
Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumPlinubius 🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf Plinubius 🇪🇺 • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Plinubius 🇪🇺 • • •TSG236
Als Antwort auf Plinubius 🇪🇺 • • •They're Canadian.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf TSG236 • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •the kangaroo mag das.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Plinubius 🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Plinubius 🇪🇺 • • •Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumGrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@plinubius @theserpentguy236 Erik Prince's Unplugged has also only tried to mislead people about GrapheneOS from a technical perspective. In contrast, /e/ and Murena have heavily attacked our team including supporting fabricated stories aimed at directing harassment towards our team.
You would be far better off using an ancient iPhone from both a privacy and security perspective. You would a fair bit better off using LineageOS which is still very problematic but far less far bad than /e/.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •David Fleetwood
Als Antwort auf Plinubius 🇪🇺 • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf David Fleetwood • • •Jean Helou ⌨️
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •I have been reading GrapheneOS FAQ. Your FAQ has a check list of what it would take for a device other than Pixel to be included in official support: I'm a bit technical and I have no idea what most of the requirements even mean :(
I'll try asking on the fair phone forums if the latest faire phones match the requirements.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Jean Helou ⌨️ • • •@jhelou @reflex @plinubius @theserpentguy236 Fairphones do not come close to meeting our requirements and they're ruled out for any future partnership with GrapheneOS due to their partnership with Murena, a company heavily involved in attacks on the GrapheneOS project and which is scamming users. Please read our post about it and the posts from other privacy/security researchers linked in it:
discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134…
No need to make a post on the Fairphone forum about it to get an answer.
Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumJean Helou ⌨️
Als Antwort auf Jean Helou ⌨️ • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Jean Helou ⌨️ • • •@jhelou @reflex @plinubius @theserpentguy236 Fairphone's devices have atrocious security, updates and long term support. They're nowhere close to providing the requirements for GrapheneOS.
Fairphone closed the door on working with us with their Murena partnership. They share part of the blame for ongoing attacks on GrapheneOS.
We're working with a large OEM towards their devices meeting all our requirements and providing official GrapheneOS support. Late 2026 or in 2027 is the aim right now.
Jean Helou ⌨️
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •David Penfold
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •« Quand il est présent sur un téléphone mobile, ce système constitue un indicateur clair de sophistication technique et d’intention de dissimulation », ajoute un policier.
Foutaise...
C.Suthorn
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Wass 🇩🇿🇵🇸
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •We must do our best to support GrapheneOs team, their work is honorable
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Qu’est-ce que GrapheneOS, ce logiciel détourné par certains trafiquants pour supprimer les informations de leur téléphone ?
Emma Confrère (Le Figaro)h3artbl33d
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Ugh. From the parts I am allowed to read it already stinks. Criminal yada yada. A smear campaign - one that is abundantly attempting to spread misinformation.
This needs to stop. Not tomorrow, not today, but yesteryear.
I mean - even some priests are using GrapheneOS nowadays to protect confessions.
JaggyJeff
Als Antwort auf h3artbl33d • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf JaggyJeff • • •C.H.
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •I'm really at a loss for words.
Even Threema, Signal, and Tuta Mail are used by criminals. Anything that is secure can also be misused by criminals.
Because I want a smartphone without any
Bloatware apps and with privacy settings.
Am I a criminal ??
GOVERNMENTS ARE MUCH MORE CRIMINAL AND CORRUPT THAN I COULD EVER BE. !!!
@GrapheneOS
I WISH YOU ALL THE LUCK IN THE WORLD.
@Tutanota
@threemaapp
@signalapp
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •and it's not even the worse, they made the addition of "black box" on their network mandatory under "Francois holland" president, officially for scanning http only, but in reallity as a black box anything can run on them and ISP have no control over it or even know what it does.
French are on the full surveillance state road.
ayhon
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Delopa
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •We have a few groups such as @LaQuadrature trying to defend our rights but it's not enough...
Klaus Frank
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Get GrapheneOS certified for (in Germany) VsNfD and "Streng Geheim". Here it's called "Geheimhaltungsgrad". I think the English word for that is just "Classification" (you know the "Top Secret" and so on stuff).
Followed by marketing it for Government employees.
Then nobody will say anything about criminals using it anymore. After all you also don't hear anything of any of the other products that get used in such contexts like KeePass or Veracrypt and so on...
Worlds Gone Mad
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Nartagnan ⏚
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Le Monolecte 😷🤬🐧
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Feu d'jais 🥞
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •bullshit. French prisons are hackerspaces, never heard of that? It has been told that behind the cover of the books Sarkozy took, the books were in fact about Linux and GrapheneOS.
/s
Libre>Gratis
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •I feel like eventually if we keep going down this road, there is going to be a suit over whether or not the use of secure aftermarket ROMs is grounds for reasonable suspicion of a crime.
"Sir is there a reason you don't have an advertising ID? "
avron
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •warzazel.xulub
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •xyrd
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •All grapheneos is android for people who want control over their device...
Just because someone want control over their data by not using the norm and picking privacy preserving alternatives should not be a red flag. Sure criminals do it too, but let's be honest there's more people who do it because they want the "freedom" or as a hobby than for crime. The issue here is it's harder to spy on these people. It's all about control
suomynona1405
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •yopox
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Jennifer🏳️⚧️
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •gkrnours
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Feu d'jais 🥞
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Ncoinfo
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Ncoinfo
Als Antwort auf Ncoinfo • • •If my personal situation allowed it, I would leave the country (probably for Canada or Ireland), to be honest. The grass isn't necessarily greener elsewhere, but I can no longer stand the self-sufficient mindset that far too many of my fellow citizens have.
And if Graphene Os were to be banned or its use became too suspicious, I would not return to Google Android. Instead, I would take this opportunity to embark on a digital detox and return to a dumbphone.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Ncoinfo • • •@ncoinfo Canada could very quickly follow the same path as many European countries and we're prepared to move the operations we have in Canada elsewhere if needed.
Our update mirrors aren't trusted by the update client due to signature checks and downgrade protection for the app store metadata and app/OS updates but the servers still matter and we plan to start taking the politics towards privacy of European countries into account more than we were for choice of providers and locations.
Fenval
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •FYI, comments below the Figaro article are not going the way they want. People are not buying it. That's what matters the most.
Lutin Discret
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •> /e/OS receives millions of euros in government funding
Do you have a source for this claim?
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Lutin Discret • • •@lutindiscret
projets-libres.org/en/podcast/…
> The European Union has subsidized us to the tune of several million for this project.
It should be noted that this is money to build products for their for-profit company. Their non-profit is controlled by the same people who own the for-profit company selling what it makes. They're very closely tied together. It's quite unlike Mozilla where the non-profit owns the for-profit company. The for-profit is owned by investors to get a financial return.
pdlrd
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Jean Helou ⌨️
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •I would be interested in a sourced article about this, if only to learn about the threat vectors that are actually used in the wild and how various OS patch or don't patch the corresponding issues.
Do you have a link or something that goes deeper into these aspects 🙏🏻?
Never mind, I found grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/… in the thread which seems to have more information
GrapheneOS
2025-11-19 22:12:56
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Jean Helou ⌨️ • • •@jhelou Doesn't grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/… show up in the thread for you?
GrapheneOS
2025-11-19 10:57:03
Jean Helou ⌨️
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Criminelle Onctueuse
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Criminelle Onctueuse • • •Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumCriminelle Onctueuse
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •ProprieteDuSage
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Namu
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •I understand your statment against /e/ and iodé.
I was mislead thinking /e/ was "just" lineage with a privacy overlay. I did not look at the details. I started thinking their was an issue as I tested lineage on a Samsung tablet and saw it get weekly detailed updates when my fairphone 3 only got monthly-ish /e/ updates (and still get a13 when fairphone published a15 for it long ago)...
The main issue I have with graphene is my need for a repairable phone to make it last long. Pixels are not really repairable. Do you plan to support such a phone in the future ? Or the only hope is to expect Fairphone to inbed a secure element in next phone ?
Degafamons-nous !
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •les mots sont durs tout de meme non?
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Degafamons-nous ! • • •@unii It's an extraordinarily insecure and non-private OS lacking basic privacy/security patches. They mislead users about what they provide and heavily downplay their failure to protect them. /e/ makes users much worse off than if they had simply used an iOS device. Apple has far more substance behind their privacy and security claims for their products and services.
You should read discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134… and also the coverage from Divested Computing, Mike Kuketz and others about it.
Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion Forumzoug
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •e/OS/ makes it possible to use old devices without Google. GrapheneOS may be more secure but for me, I would love to not use Google devices in the first place, and reduce e-waste by not discarding phones once their manufacturers stop supporting them. These are both very valid reasons to use e/OS/ and on these points I strongly prefer their policy to GrapheneOS's.
GrapheneOS is adamant on the fact that no phone that doesn't support specific security features will ever be supported. e/OS/ makes it possible to use old devices. The projects are complementary: you shouldn't be so critical of them.
You don't seem to care that your project pushes people to buy phones from Google, which proved itself to be one of the worst Big Tech companies time and time again (latest example: 404media.co/google-has-chosen-…), you also don't seem to care in the slightest about the environmental impact of buying new phones to stay covered by GrapheneOS, so yeah, on many points, I prefer their project to yours, even though I use GrapheneOS myself.
404 Media
2025-11-13 14:06:56
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf zoug • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@zoug You seem to be confusing /e/ with LineageOS which is what they forked to build their products or the DivestOS project Murena played a substantial role in killing off ruining it for the developer with their attacks prior to shifting focus to attacking GrapheneOS.
Murena is not on the side of privacy but rather is opposed to it and profiting from selling extremely non-private devices and services while attacking actual privacy projects including with repeated harassment towards our team.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@zoug There's nothing about /e/ that's complimentary to GrapheneOS. It's a blatant scam that's causing substantial harm to people who are being tricked into using highly insecure and non-private devices/services. If people are going to be using those old devices, they're better off using LineageOS and would have been better off using DivestOS than that before Murena helped to kill it off.
You talk about the environment but support a company selling disposable devices without basic updates.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@zoug When we began countering their false claims and criticizing them, they got on board with pushing fabricated stories about our team and harassment. DivestOS was also targeted with harassment by their community, but they've put a lot more effort into targeting GrapheneOS.
/e/ greatly lowering the security of devices is an asset to authoritarians and there's little reason that they'll face the same opposition. They're not protecting users but rather making them far worse off than iOS users.
zoug
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •thanks for the in-depth response. My point about not buying Google phones, and extending the life of existing devices, still stands. 7 years of support means little if you don't buy the phone the instant it came out, and not all Pixels have 7 years. Take me for example, bought a Pixel 6a last year when my old phone broke, it only has 5 years of support, and don't want to change it before it's completely unusable: I'd have to switch to Lineage in one year and a half from now, it seems.
I had a good general view of /e/OS because of their unGoogled promises but may have been misled, I've never tried their OS first-hand.
I'm still bothered by GrapheneOS's standpoint of "either a device with perfect security or nothing" policy, again, because of the e-waste this entails. Yes, even at the cost of some privacy features. But you've convinced me that LineageOS is a better choice than /e/OS (and that one I've tried before).
mrteddybear
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Different Drummer
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •avron
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf avron • • •@avron We didn't invent anything. Why don't you look at the article we linked?
> « Quand il est présent sur un téléphone mobile, ce système constitue un indicateur clair de sophistication technique et d’intention de dissimulation », ajoute un policier. Le logiciel peut effacer toutes les données du téléphone en affichant une fausse page de Snapchat par exemple quand un cyberenquêteur tente d’entrer dans sa mémoire ou de le décrypter.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@avron There's also a second article with more fearmongering about GrapheneOS and a veiled threat:
archive.is/8Jo17
avron
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •avron
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Anisse
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •French gos user here.
> the references to human rights organizations, large tech companies and others using GrapheneOS weren't included
This is verifiably false:
> Notre travail sur la sécurité et la confidentialité est très apprécié par les professionnels de la sécurité et est régulièrement recommandé et utilisé par les militants des droits de l’homme, les journalistes et les avocats.
For a mainstream media, this is a fairly favorable article (with obvious falsehoods). They contacted you and gave you the article closing words in the middle of police PR op, instead of taking it as-is.
Your feud with /e/ distracts from the interesting points like France being unfortunately more and more quick to adopt authoritarian policies.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Anisse • • •@Aissen No, it's not false, but rather you're significantly misunderstanding what we wrote. We provided references to statements / articles by Amnesty International and major companies which were not included. We aren't talking about presenting what we said as an unsubstantiated claim after posting a huge amount of highly inaccurate claims about GrapheneOS.
/e/ is an extraordinarily insecure and non-private OS being funded by multiple of the very same governments attacking GrapheneOS this way.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Qu’est-ce que GrapheneOS, ce logiciel détourné par certains trafiquants pour supprimer les informations de leur téléphone ?
Emma Confrère (Le Figaro)Esme Ciredutemps
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Tobias Hellgren
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •kirby :PregnantPleromatan:
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf kirby :PregnantPleromatan: • • •User
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf User • • •Jerome
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •User
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •funding- yes
government - no
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf User • • •deny
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •' your secure personal data phone solution by drug traffickers and other criminals'
.. And intelligence agencies, smart journalists, human rights activists.. People caring about privacy..
All that just means it works.
Really fine.
johnfocker
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •IIRC Le Parisien is owned by Bernard Arnault
No wonder they frame everything in far right ideology
redti
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •@user025810374810 @sortedetruc Here's a starting point for you:
e.foundation/ngi-mobifree-proj…
mobifree.org/
NGI Mobifree Project raises 4.4 million eurosfor Open Source projects development - e Foundation - deGoogled unGoogled smartphone operating systems and online services - your data is your data
e.foundationUser
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •@sortedetruc I searched but could not find a source for this. I tried
google
wiki
e foundation website
perplexity
User
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Fred G
Als Antwort auf User • • •leparisien.fr/faits-divers/goo…
Google Pixel et GrapheneOS : la botte secrète des narcotrafiquants pour protéger leurs données de la police
Julien Constant (Le Parisien)GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Fred G • • •@chbug @user025810374810 @sortedetruc There's an archive link bypassing their paywall and not giving them advertisement money at the end of our thread:
grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/…
The post above was asking for something else, proof of /e/ being government funded, which we gave them a link to start researching:
e.foundation/ngi-mobifree-proj…
mobifree.org/
NGI Mobifree Project raises 4.4 million eurosfor Open Source projects development - e Foundation - deGoogled unGoogled smartphone operating systems and online services - your data is your data
e.foundationGrapheneOS
2025-11-19 10:57:03
Fazal Majid
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •@lienrag @user025810374810 @sortedetruc They're receiving support from both the EU and French government.
The funding is being wasted as it's not being assigned based on merit. It's also heavily going towards building products to sell from for-profit companies.
/e/ is set up so that they have a for-profit company with investors and a non-profit owned by the same people who own the company which receives government funding. They're essentially just lining the pockets of people they know.
Lien Rag
Als Antwort auf User • • •@user025810374810
NGI funding is a European Commission project, not a French government one.
And a good one afaik, starting to take open source seriously and trying to fund it properly.
@GrapheneOS @sortedetruc
GrapheneOS
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@niavy don't answer to him, it's a troll, or one of those who talk big while not understanding how hardware security work and think software can do anything.
Surly one of those that think that a software update to AI can create skynet....
C.Suthorn
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •2babcc
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf 2babcc • • •@2babcc @niavy Locking the bootloader only accomplishes something if the OS has verified boot support intact which it doesn't.
It's far more important that it regularly lags significantly behind on standard privacy and security patches. For example, not having the Pixel kernel, firmware and driver patches for June 2025 and later until they ported to Android 16 in October 2025 as one way it ends up lagging behind. LineageOS is much less bad than the forks of it.
🅱🅻🆄🅴🅱️
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Fett
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Regarding the "dark web" presence, would you consider making your website and other services, especially the web installer, accessible over TOR ?
Or is it already and I did not see the link ?
Thanks for all your work by the way.
Niavy
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •@lexinova
OK so pointing out a superior "we're better" assertion feeling is a false claim ?
Saying while other ROMs may be worse than Graphene, these can be better than stock is a false claim ?
Whoa.
@breizh @GrapheneOS
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Niavy • • •LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •@breizh @niavy don't realising it is not an excuse even more when said like he said it.
When you are not sure you add thing like "correct me if i'm wrong but".
here it was not a question but an affirmation
LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •Breizh
Als Antwort auf LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺 • • •Breizh
Als Antwort auf LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺 • • •GrapheneOS
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •Breizh
Als Antwort auf LΞX/NØVΛ 🇪🇺 • • •You’re talking about the part he said "You may be talking about GrapheneOS scams ?" I guess?
The question was here. Okay, after it’s an affirmation but it’s more like a formulation error.
And the response is, no, Graphene didn’t talk about the scams, but they were really talking about Lineage and their forks.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Fett • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •Niavy
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •Now I really got the point. Thanks.
@GrapheneOS @lexinova
Breizh
Als Antwort auf Niavy • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Steph à vélo
Als Antwort auf Breizh • • •@breizh
thank you for the explanation, i rent a fairphone with /e/os with @cooperative_commown because i don't want my data to go to google, but i expected the security to be the same
@GrapheneOS @niavy @lexinova
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Steph à vélo • • •Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumChristophe B.
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Christophe B. • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Qu’est-ce que GrapheneOS, ce logiciel détourné par certains trafiquants pour supprimer les informations de leur téléphone ?
Emma Confrère (Le Figaro)Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumGrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Rebel Zhang
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •@niavy Again, we are talking about comparison with LineageOS, not GrapheneOS. With low level security hardening, GrapheneOS will offer a very higher level of security and privacy, which makes /e/ and other OSs fall behind. You have misread my viewpoint.
In addition, your radical and contumelious words is harmful to the community, and will potentially drive people away from GrapheneOS.
Rebel Zhang
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •@niavy With unavailable source code, there is no way to verify. And it can contain telemetry or even backdoors, that will instantly break security.
In my opinion: GOS > CalyxOS >> /e/ ≈ iodé > LineageOS > crDroid >>>>>>>>>>> iOS and stock Android distributions.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@niavy I am not against GrapheneOS, neither for Murena and iodé. I am just a ordinary security and privacy advocate, and I am feeling confused, that's all. I am asking you for links about Murena's and iodé's attack to find out whether that is true, but you never provide them. And you keep misreading and misinterpreting my statements, as well as creating opposition.
If you want to ban me, do what the fuck you want to do and go fuck yourself.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •@rebel1725 @niavy Here's an iodé business partner spreading Kiwi Farms harassment content from yesterday as Calyx, /e/ and iodé have repeatedly done themselves over and over again. They're also partnered with Braxman who does it on a daily basis.
discuss.privacyguides.net/t/no…
Here's a response to Nova Custom business partner who posted the egregiously libelous article they're linking:
linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:l…
Both linked videos are clearly harassment content filled with outrageous fabrications.
GrapheneOS: Yet another contributor attacked & banned by Daniel Micay 🤦
Michael Altfield (www.linkedin.com)GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@rebel1725 @niavy If they don't want us talking about it, they can cut out their regular attacks on GrapheneOS and our team occurring on an ongoing basis from Braxman, /e/ and iodé.
All 3 of the core developers including the lead developer left Calyx. The leader/founder of the organization was pushed out and isn't part of it anymore. We're talking about Calyx in the past, not the Calyx of the present without most of the people involved in attacks on us still present which may not be hostile.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@niavy Thank you for the information you just offered. I will consider a blog post about mobile OS comparison. I want to say links to relevant resources and/or detailed demonstration supporting your opinion is much stronger than words like those insulting and uncomfortable words.
There are many people like me that do not know much more about what is happening. Using unfriendly words will drive them away, causing harm to the GOS project, the community, and the free software movement.
Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
GrapheneOS Discussion ForumGrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@niavy I know, and the CalyxOS project itself has made this clear on its official website.
I am talking about the case before `2025-06-05`.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@niavy You should consider the motive, not only the action. According to your logic, if those who mislead by /e/ are 'despicable', then those who believe iOS respect the privacy will be heinous and should be put into a massacre. Obviously this is not true. It is Apple's fault, not its users' fault.
I used to be an iPhone user before 2019 as well, and after learning about free software, I have understand Apple's conspiracy and switch to free software. We should educate, not censure.
GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •GrapheneOS
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@niavy But it is Murena, iodé and their partners' fault, not ours. As for me, I even don't have heard of their actions recently, and I made my statements according to what I know already.
Apple does not attack libre software projects directly using libel and harassments. But instead, it uses jails, DRM, incompatibility to do so. And Apple is ruining the users' privacy by cooperating with the governments and imposing surveillance and censorship.
Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •@niavy According to calyxos.org/news/2025/08/01/a-…
> Given the potential risk posed by the pause of maintenance and development, it’s logical that we stop providing options to install CalyxOS for now.
> For those wishing to remain on CalyxOS until our next release, note that you will not have the latest security patches on your device as released from the Android Open Source Project and from any proprietary sources provided by device manufacturers.
A letter to the CalyxOS community
calyxos.orgGrapheneOS
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag • • •Rebel Zhang
Als Antwort auf Rebel Zhang • • •@niavy
> Without security updates, we can only be honest that this does not guarantee the level of security we strive for, especially when global threats to privacy and human rights are at a critical moment. That is why in the meantime we have posted the recommendation that people who are running CalyxOS should uninstall the OS and follow our community channels for updates, including when the latest version of CalyxOS becomes available again.
Xarev927
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •Victor Morel - ummon
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •tkr
Als Antwort auf GrapheneOS • • •